Now this gets confusing. 'His Masters Voice' was Victor's trademark advertising phrase in the USA, but it was not used as a brand name. So if you have 'His Masters Voice' written as the brand name on a decal or metal plate (instead of 'Victor' or 'Victor Talking Machine Company'), along with 'The Gramophone Company LTD', you have an 'HMV' product, made in Great Britain by The Gramophone Company, which licensed the trademark dog and phonograph logo for use in Europe. This company was only indirectly associated with the Victor Talking Machine Company of Camden USA, although they did share some similar designs and products. HMV phonographs are not covered on this website, and regretfully, we have no information on these machines.NOTE: There are also many fake phonographs which use this HMV designation, please see the article at the bottom of this page.
THESE ARE VICTOR TALKING MACHINE PHONOGRAPHS!!

EXTERNAL HORN VICTOR. If your Victor-labeled phonograph has an outside horn like the one to the left, it is called an External Horn Victor (or just 'Victor'). These machines are desirable collector items, and usually date from between 1901 up to the early 1920's. Note that, in many cases, you may come across an old external horn phonograph with a missing horn that looks like a simple tabletop phonograph. These are easy to identify, as they have no doors or openings on the front of the cabinet for the sound to exit. Note that this is not a 'Victrola' (which has the horn concealed inside), but is correctly termed a 'Victor'.

INTERNAL HORN VICTROLA. If your Victor-labeledphonograph has the horn inside the cabinet, typically with small doors that openand close in front of the horn opening (as shown to the left), you have aVictrola,which was the exclusive name the Victor gave to this particular design of phonograph. These were made in all shapes and sizes, including very small table models without doors. Victrolas that were powered by electric motors instead of wind-up springs, were calledElectrolas.

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ORTHOPHONIC VICTROLA or ELECTROLA. By the mid-1920's, Victor updated its product line, which included advanced horn and soundbox designs (designated as Orthophonic Victrolas)or with electronic amplification, radios and automatic record changers (designated as Electrolas). Some of these phonographs were installed in very large decorative cabinets, and were quite expensive at the time. They came in all shapes and sizes from 1925-1929.

DEALER TAGS

Various emblems/decals/tags may also appear at various locations on your Victor product (examples below). These were usually placed on the phonograph by the selling dealer, and were simply added for advertising purposes. Even other music machine companies like Wurlitzer sometimes sold Victor machines, so these logos may also appear. They do not add value to your machine, however they do identify where it was originally sold. A listing of some of the historical Victor Retail Dealers can be found here. Machines sold in Canada may have a 'Berliner' tag present under the serial number plate.

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A few of the dealer decals/plates typically installed on Victor products. Some are located near the metal dataplate, and some are under the lid.
FAKE VICTOR PRODUCTS:
This is a topic, which unfortunately must be addressed. We get hundreds of emails every month from folks who have found or purchased a 'Victor' phonograph which is not legitimate. There are dishonest sellers all over the world who misrepresent phonographs in numerous ways; since the demand for external horn Victor phonographs is quite high, there is often a financial incentive to create a 'fake'. Some are marketed simply as decorations or for movie props, but many are sold as legitimate antiques, and many end-up in the hands of an unsuspecting buyer. One common fraud is to make a 'Frankenphone' by piecing-together bits and pieces from all kinds of phonographs, both new and old. Reproduction phonograph cabinets, horns and components are still being made in China and India, and are frequently seen on EBay and elsewhere. Some are 'artificially aged' to appear old. Another dishonest scheme is to put a legitimate 'VICTOR' identification plate on a cheap off-brand or reproduction machine They are frequently passed-off as valuable and legitimate antiques. Be aware that Victor produced machines and cabinets of the highest quality. The typical cheesy quality which is found in the metal parts or an overly-glassy smooth pine cabinet is a dead giveaway of a fake Victor. These replicas have no collector value whatsoever. A few of the signs of a 'phony-phonograph' are seen in the images below.

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Nipper on Steroids: There are many different styles of reproduction dataplates, which are often placed on fake machines. None of them have high-quality graphics.From left to right: 1) the dog on this Chinese-made reproduction plate has apparently been undergoing illegal steroid treatments causing his muscles to bulge and his head to shrink. And what's with the bizarre abbreviation of Victor Talking Mch Co? 2) A reproduction plate from Mexico made by someone who has been sampling too much tequila. Both Victor and Edison brands are represented on this plate, along with the meaningless term 'Graphonole' and a pointless 1884 date. RCA is also mentioned just to make it more confusing. Makes absolutely no sense. 3) a 'cut-out' plate from a legitimate 1920's Victrola model that was modified and mounted on a fake external horn machine to make it appear 'authentic'. 4) The real thing. Victor had very high quality control when these plates were made, and never produced poorly designed or cheaply struck examples. While there are several different versions of authentic plates, the quality of the trademark's logo and 'Victor' wording were always excellent; however, the stamped model number and serial number information could get a bit sloppy at times. Unfortunately, correct original plates are often removed from junked Victrolas and placed on cheap reproduction machines. There are a lot of very clever crooks out there!

Low Quality and Goofy-Looking Designs are a Sure Indication of a Fake:From left to right: 1) Victor never made 'dual' horn models, and a correct Victor metal horn was never embossed with designs. Legitimate horns never point this sharply upward. 2) The crude and uneven quality of this cast backbracket holding the horn is a dead giveaway of a cheap reproduction machine (never mind that 'RCA Victor' appears in weak lettering on a phonograph supposedly made years before the RCA Corporation even existed). 3) This monstrosity is a poster-child for cheap reproductions. Poorly soldered and abruptly-angled horn joints, a soundbox 'dangling' from the tonearm without a support, the crank in the wrong location sticking out awkwardly at an angle from under the turntable, and a cheap pine case. Pure junk! 4) It might look nice, but it is a reproduction. A dark-stained pine cabinet, crooked-sitting soundbox, and crude details point to a modern reproduction. Note that the angle of the horn elbow is very sharp. Victor always produced elbows with rounded corners.

So, just as a reminder, before we go forward..
Identifying Victor Products

Note: To date and get an idea of rarity of a Victor Product, please read this page carefully, and then click the 'Product Information' link at the bottom of the page! If you have already read and understand this information, click here to skip this page.

Before the age, history and value of a Victor product can be determined, the phonograph must be correctly identified. Fortunately for collectors, the process of identifying a Victor phonograph is not difficult. The Victor Talking MachineCompany did an excellent job of providing model identification, along with aunique serial number for most models, which makes dating their phonographs arelatively easy task in most cases.

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Every Victor phonograph has a metal dataplate affixed either on or near the motorboard (for machines with lids), onthe side of the phonograph (for most external horn and lidless models), or under the turntable(for low-priced and some portable models of the 20's). The turntable must be lifted straight up and off the motorboard to view some plates. Every dataplate contains both amodel identification (stamped on the left) and a serial number (on the right). Every model has an individual serialization.

Most dataplates will appearsimilar to the pictures below:

The model number is shown first, followed by a serial number. On the leftmost plate above, the model is a 'VV-XI' and the serial number is '836749'. 'VV' stands for Victor-Victrola. Some external horns have just a 'V' for Victor, and others use 'Type' or 'Style' to identify the model. Some machines use names rather than numeric model designations. Using thisinformation, the hobbyist can proceed to the next page (linked below) to determine specific details.

In some cases, the dataplate mayhave corroded over the years, and the small stamped serial numbers may be nearly impossible toread. It is usually possible to use a piece of very fine steel wool and GENTLYrub over the number so that it becomes visible. Too much pressure will damagethe plate and could remove the contrasting black paint on the plate. In other cases,cautious use of an exacto-knife can prove helpful.

Serialization of external horn Victors likely began around s/n 100. Accurately dating these very early external horn machines is difficult, as the serial numbers were reset in 1905 and some were reset again in 1909, and thus, there can be 2 (or more) identical serial numbers for a given model. In addition, factory records for the earliest machines are incomplete. In these cases some educated guessing is needed to accurately date a phonograph. This is only the case for external horn Victors..not for Victrolas.

Most Victrola (internal horn) phonographs started production at s/n 501, and ran consecutively until the model was discontinued. Each model has it's own serial number during the sequential production run. During production, large blocks of serial numbers were skipped in some instances, but since these 'skips' were well documented, we are still able to accurately date virtually all Victrolas. The exceptions to the '501' starting serial number for Victrolas occur on prototype models, and many of the Canadian-built and Export models, which can have serial numbers below 100.

IMPORTANT NOTE: The presence of decals, metal tags, etc.with a dealer logo (e.g 'Wurlitzer', 'Hudson's', 'Lyon and Healy', etc) are simply advertising applied by the selling dealer, and do NOT signify that the Victor product was made by these sellers.

Some Victrolas that were producedfrom late 1917 through 1918 will have an 'A' suffix after the model number, whichindicated some improvements were made to the motor (along with a priceincrease). This suffix was discontinued after 1918. The picture below shows atypical 'Type A' plate: in this case a VV-XI-A. The 'A' can be seen as a smallletter after the 'VV-XI' model designation. The presence of thisA-suffix makes dating a machine a simple task. In some instances other letters were used to indicate export to foreign markets. The 'A' suffix neither adds nor detracts from value or rarity, as it simply indicates a small design change.

Many Victrolas have a suffixletter after the serial number. In many instances, this letter is located far to the right of the serial number, and can be difficult to see. This letter indicates the 'Model Type', and can be useful in dating a machine.Each Type' indicates a small iterative design change to the model. Although the serial numbers are small and hard to read on this photograph, the 'A'suffix (indicated by the arrow) is visible to the far right of the serial number (12698). This indicates Type 'A' of this particular model, and should be considered a part of the serial number for reference and valuation purposes. This plate is from a VV-XVI, and uses the earlysmall stamped numbers, which are very hard toread. In many instances, the plate will have to be cleaned in order to read theserial number information.

In some instances, a letter prefix may be found before the serial number (see Canadian machine tag below).

Victrolas that had electricallypowered motors in place of the wind-up spring used a 'VE' prefix, anda slightly larger dataplate. These were called 'Electrolas' on thedataplate, but still retained the Victrola decal under the lid. Orthophonic Victrolas with electric motors usedeither an 'X' suffix when the AC-only motor was used, or the 'VE'prefix when the older-style AC/DC motor was installed.

Victor products that were intended for sale in the Canadian market will have an additional 'Berliner Gram-0-Phone' tag underneath the ID tag. Some of these phonographs were produced at the main Victor Camden NJ plant, while others were made in Canada. Note that some Canadian machines have a 'C' prefix prior to the serial number. Machines with an 'E' prefix usually signify that they were intended for export to foreign markets. Note that many of these Canadian and export machines have serial numbers well below the standard '501' starting point of Victrola serialization. Please note that the original production logs for machines with a 'C' or 'E' prefix have not been located, and we currently have no production, dating or rarity information on any export or Canadian phonographs, or on any other models intended solely for sale outside the USA. The detailed dating and rarity information contained on this site is for US production models only. Some Canadian and export models are covered for informational purposes only.

As stated above, most Victrola (internal horn) serialization started at 501 for each model, and ran sequentially through the production run. The example on the right is from the very first VE-360 sold to the public. Blocks of serial numbers were sometimes skipped when design revisions were made to a particular model. External-horn Victors introduced prior to 1909 started at much lower numbers; surviving examples of external horn phonographs have been found with serial numbers of less than 100. In addtion, serial numbers from early production Victors were 'reset' around 1909, and thus it is possible to find two different vintage machines of the same model with identical serial numbers. Consequently, accurately dating these early machines is a very difficult task. Euro truck simulator 2 ps2 download.

Another piece of importantinformation in identifying a Victrola is the license sticker. Every Victrolaleft the factory with a license sticker attached, and this can provide furtherinformation about the date of manufacture, particularly on early machines.Locating the sticker can be tricky; sometimes they are placed under the machine,sometimes on the back, sometimes inside the record storage area (on the insidecabinet). In the late 1920's, the stickers were placed underneath the larger machines. A date will appear on the bottom left corner of thesticker as shown in the photograph below. There are often other dates elsewhereon the sticker, but these have to do with the dates of patents, not with thebuilding of the phonograph.

In this case, the date isFebruary 1, 1908. Unfortunately, the sticker is often damaged or missing completely, since it is made only of thin paper and did not last longif the Victrola was stored outside or in humid conditions.

The 'sticker date' is usually accurate within approximately 1 year for older Victrolas (1906-1914), but becomes less reliable in subsequent years of production. If a sticker reads 'February 1, 1908' the odds are quite good that the machine was made in 1908 or 1909. During the mid-teens, Victrola dealers often replaced thestickers of phonographs in stock with updated versions, due to patent or licensechanges. In addition, Victor ceased regularly updating stickers on many models after 1918, and thus it is not uncommon to find a 1922 Victrola with a 1918 stickerattached.Dating via the serial number is a far more accurate method.